VR concerts: a look at the backstage

Transcript

0:00

What we did is a concert with Moneywide looking online I discovered he's really a rising star of the American rap scene, is one of the most trained artists of the year in the US So.

And we made a concert with him in the in VR, in social VR with an innovative concept about the multiverse.

0:20

So you could navigate in the same environment, you could navigate from one style to the other, like traveling again across parallel universes while listening the concert in Oximal way to do it, which initial job was a journey in a city while you were listening to the music, for instance.

0:40

So it's always trying to do something which is cool, innovative, a bit crazy and showing them you can deliver something like that.

Of course they like it because they're artists and they know that it's something they can show on social media.

They can say they did it so it's cool and that's satisfied also themselves.

0:56

Hello and welcome to this episode of XR and AI Spotlight, a show where we give the stage to.

Innovators, technologists and entrepreneurs who shine at the intersection between XR and AI.

Today we have with us Anthony Vitilo AKA The Scar Ghost.

1:15

He is a CTO with two lives.

At night he codes building mixed reality apps with mixed reality implemented since 2019 like Heat Motion Reloaded and most recently has launched their own event.

1:31

Live with one of the biggest artists in the US scene on a platform called V Room and during the day instead he is an active Blogger, having gathered a big following and positioned himself as one of the expert at the intersection within XR.

1:50

So it is a great pleasure to have Anthony here with me.

And now let's roll the titles.

2:06

One question I had, so you recently, you and your team, right, recently launched a music event on your own platform, right, V Room.

I mean, what is it and how did it go?

Well, you know, in 2019, for lacking many things in my life, start by chance a bit like the nickname in 2019, a bit by chance a bit just to experiment something.

2:36

You started working with Luka Chuttolo, the CEO for home.

That was a company at that time, mostly let's say promoting the selected movies, infinite festivals, and it's like these kind of things.

But the COA wanted to experiment with VR because it was a bit it was a good passion, was a good passion for the technology.

2:59

So I wanted to see if there was a way to make this event happen, like eventuality.

I was looking for someone to collaborate with.

He started writing in various groups and in a we chat group, both together.

I read about it.

I said OK, let's do something together.

Let's see how it goes so fast for the four years, a few words, one a few crazy nights organized already.

3:22

Basically we felt the need to have our own platform because we we've done lots of work in the air chat, which is an amazing platform.

I still love it, but we felt the need to have something that was really tailored towards the concerts, events and festivals.

3:39

So with the feature set that was specific for that, the air chat is amazing, but is more general purpose or more to make people socialize.

And so that's why we started the work like one year and more or less one year and some months ago.

And the thing that I discovered maybe we'll have the opportunity to figure out it is that making your own platform is super complicated and super difficult, super long and super expensive.

4:07

But still now we are, we are managing to obtain some results.

So a few days ago to be accepted on 7th of November, we launched what we call about internally, we call it about beta, then externally guesses something like early access.

So let's say we are still building the product.

4:24

This is lots of bugs etcetera, but it has already enough feature set to be good because now you can go to the application that is called the Vroom VRROOM on all major VR stores and you go there, there are a few events you can attend and there are also some open spaces you can go there to socialize.

4:44

And what we did in 7th of November which will be replicated this week on Thursday and Friday is a concert with money white, money white.

I've been very honest with you, I had no idea who he was.

But looking online, I discovered this is really a rising star of the American rap scene, is one of the most trained artists of the year in the US, So really is going a lot.

5:08

And we made a concept within in the in VR, in social VR with an innovative concept about the multiverse.

So it was really the idea to do something new and people were able to go there.

There's been some little problems, but most of people managed to enjoy the event and have fun and this 15 minutes of music, let's say, way of leaving a concept in VR.

5:35

So that's what's good.

So Anthony, maybe to step back, right, you mentioned that in the VR chat was not fulfilling the need of sort of platform geared towards events and musical performances.

So what other things that you would say the rule ads or changes to make that possible?

5:57

Well, that's a good question.

It's still a bit of a work in progress, but there are a few things that we're already doing.

For instance, one that is very interesting is of course the type of content we're proposing or that we're accepting, which are all towards the music theater and we act in general events.

6:16

So that's that's already interesting to set the tone.

I mean if someone wants to go to an event knows that going to home, find something which is interesting, then in our creation tools we are working towards offering facilities maybe to have live events or like music available on our platforms.

6:36

Also to have tools like ticketing monetization tools which now we have chat is adding them.

But it's still more than a passion way which is still cool for the kind of audience.

But in our case, we wanted something more akin to the element where there is ticketing and these are mostly so it's tool, it's creation, it's hard monetization.

6:59

So trying to do something that long term people that need to do this kind of events, live events know that they have a tool set in our SDK because we have a unit SDK to create experiences for our event.

Where are these facilities?

7:15

Maybe for audio reactiveness, for integration with existing tools that they use, professionals of the field, something related more to audio quality etc.

Which will be integrated.

Some already are and in other platforms are less relevant and that's why we try to differentiate this way that.

7:37

Makes a lot of sense.

And when you look at what you have done, so you were both in charge of the technical part and I suppose also from a broader perspective, right, of the whole product and maybe the whole experience in itself.

What are the things that right now you would have done differently?

7:58

Oh, so you see with the regrets of the past in the last year.

Because and no, but the main reason is because I think that people here listening can have a lot to learn from, from looking back, right?

And and I wouldn't call them regrets.

8:14

I wouldn't call them more like learnings, right.

Because that is something that next time you can take into account.

Yeah.

Jokingly I said, given the effort, I don't know if there is a next time working apart apart from this little joke.

8:32

So one thing that I want to highlight is that one thing that I've done differently I would say is a lot lot is about more let's say time management in the sense that this is very, very, very time consuming and lots of tasks are easy to be miss predicted in the beginning.

8:55

So you see a task and say maybe this is 2 weeks of work and then you start taking into it, they discover two months or things like that.

So one thing that I I noticed is that we are, I'm still employing myself as the CEO and trying to you know dictate a bit the pace on the technical side is really being able to understand better the difficulties of every task before starting working it and understanding whatever the infrequencies since the beginning and forecasting better the timing.

9:26

This is something that has been very difficult this month.

I'm learning now that everything takes always much more than expected.

So for instance when I see people criticizing other platforms, I know the effort that there is behind and how everything that you think it's given.

9:44

For grant this complicated like people mock platform without the feet.

But integrating full body has been quite an effort even just making more than 20 people in the home, it's also an effort, everything really becomes a problem.

10:02

And also the other thing on my side, which is not totally on my shoulder, but let's say that as you said, I'm anyway into lots of meetings to discuss the future of this platform is everything which is non-technical, like the marketing for instance.

Because if you're in the marketing, you can have the best products.

10:20

You know very well about marketing, so you know that is ornamental or other things like how to attract the creators not to have an SDK, how you convince them that is the right place to go, is a platform that is being built, even the legal side like the GDPR or thinking what if someone is violating content copyrights On my platform I mean all these kind of things which are extra technical but a lot as well.

10:47

So I would say that the regret I have sometimes really not understanding the scale of everything since the beginning is often you notice it while you're doing stuff, you're noticing that something is missing or someone else make you notice about implications.

I will say this is what I would have done differently in in my work because for the platform per SE, I will say more or less I would have done the same things that we have now.

11:14

So I have no regrets in this sense I.

Think it made a good point.

So it is more like trying to get to understand and know what are.

What is the scope of this talk with other people that have built something similar together?

11:30

Really like better understanding of how big, how complicated this is.

Because as you mentioned, indeed when you start working about something that should be in real time that people talk and reply even like few milliseconds delay might really break the experience, might really completely break the dialogue.

11:47

And again this is one of the just one of the of the many things and you mentioned also about the.

The creation of the event, right.

The creation of the event.

I mean, how do you actually recruit artists, performers.

12:05

I mean, how do you get them?

Hey, you know, we are creating a VR concert.

Please come over.

I mean, does that work?

Well, it depends a bit true levels of it for some.

For the the good side of it is that the ME mode, which is the CEO, Modclavier Louis, which is the CEO, are already in lots of your communities, also me and you now because of your communities.

12:28

And luckily they have worked for many years with creators.

So we have already a lot of creators in our network which they can actually and say, hey, we know each other, I know you do something cool, we are doing, we are doing something which we hope this is cool as well.

12:46

Maybe you can give it a try and and so on.

So on this side I would say it's rather easy in a way because we have lots of direct contacts, so people that can start experimenting what they've done there is the other level which is a bit more difficult is about instead the singers for our concerts which for instance are money white which is a set is quite a big artist for our scale.

13:12

But even before doing the alpha, we had three emerging French artists like called the Web 7.

And The thing is that if you, you can't have the same approach.

If you try to go looking for friends, singers or whatever, you go nowhere.

13:30

If you try to contact the big ones like your social media, no one cares about you.

So the thing that we for now has been effective is trying to reach out for instance to the labels, So trying to find different routes because they have to try a lot before 1 says yes.

13:48

And also if you have someone making introductions better.

So maybe if you know someone then or someone with universal, it's easier then if you contact directly universal.

But it's still a lot of work to prove you can deliver because once you go speaking with these people, they say who are you?

14:05

Because if you have, like I said, you have chat, they say OK, you're a famous platform, everything is going to be great, etcetera.

So they're like, who are you and why we should we give you our artists?

And so it's also a matter of showing them why they should trust us.

14:23

Now after let's say we didn't chat a lot of concerts already, now we've done two major ones on our platform plus some minor ones.

So we have some data now to show why we can do something cool I think, but still that's a complicated part.

14:40

In fact, there are some of these companies that are dedicated department just to look for singers, curate the rights and IP of the music etcetera, because it's very complicated.

It's not something you'll do in 5 minutes.

So I have to find the single find one you need maybe weeks of chasing people.

14:56

So luckily I'm not the one doing that, but my colleagues are doing that before finding even our money, right?

There was a few months passing by, so kudos to them because in the end.

Of course, well done, well done.

And so I think, I think that what is important is like the pitch to this artist.

15:15

I mean what kind of value do you do you pitch, do you position when you involve them in something like this?

Well what we try to show is that we are going to do something cool and this can give your value for them.

15:35

So even if the metals now is the world no one want to say anymore, we should just say AI all the time.

But saying that in them that they can be in a vital world, they do a concept like the great people like Periscotti, like whatever they did etcetera, they can do something similar that's already an added value.

15:57

And also showing that the cool concepts we have is also important because one thing that I'm proud of my company is that we are never trying to do something that is useful.

So what we always say, and this is something always say a lot to my blog is why replicated in VR?

16:17

Well, what you can do in real life.

I mean that's risks to be exactly like the the discount copy of it.

Like you try to replicate people in a stadium in VR and you maybe have just fake about us doing whatever moment while in a real estate and you feel the energy of 50,000 people together.

16:36

You can't replicate that in VR.

Now I'm a believer in Excel now maybe in 25 years we can replicate also that not today.

So instead of trying to go for that which is impossible, we try to offer another experience.

Like in this case was the one of the multilas.

So you could navigate in the same environment.

16:55

You could navigate from one style to the other, like traveling again across parallel universes while listening the console in Oximal to do it, which initial job was a journey in a city while you were listening to the music, for instance.

17:10

So it's always trying to do something which is cool, innovative, a bit crazy and showing them you can deliver something like that.

Of course they like it because they're artists and they know that it's something they can show on social media.

They can say they did it, so it's cool and that's satisfied also themselves.

17:27

So the pictures are a bit about that, so you can do something new and interesting and that can be cool for you.

And some of them, especially the one which a bit more innovative, they're like, OK, let's do it.

And and then the difficult past starts from that moment.

So when this when the yes comes.

17:45

So from my understanding when you mentioned this concept of multiverse, so basically the concert doesn't unfold let's say on a venue, but it goes through a series of places that kind of like swap one of each other and that somehow tell a story while the the concert is playing.

18:05

If I understand that correctly, it's a bit like that.

Let's say that it's it's cool to be seen in Bihar because wherever YouTube video recording which is made by the way we're using our internal recording tools that are available on the platform.

18:23

That's something which is crazy with a super complex system of cameras everyone can use and basically MVR is, but MVR is living very well.

So it starts that you are in this, the concert starts at you're in Philadelphia and crossing of the streets.

18:42

Philadelphia is the city of the singer of course and he's singing on top of a van and he starts rapping yo-yo yo and that's his stuff.

And you are in front of it with the other people, with the other 1520 people that are in your instance of the concert.

18:58

And OK you listen to the music and The funny thing is that we don't say anything but you have two portals like little multi portals on the two walls, one on the left, the lower, the other one on the right.

And it's funny because we have some recordings or what happens with people.

19:15

So they listen to the music, a certain .1 notices the portal and say what the hell is that portal.

So starts going enters into the portal on the left and it comes out on the one on the right.

And the people are the same, the singer is the same.

But the style of everything has changed.

19:31

So from Philadelphia, yourself in the capital world with everything is like a Green Valley with weird plants with eyes and the other of the singers become cartoon as well.

But he is exactly before he's continuing the same song like nothing changed.

19:47

He's dancing, he's moving and you're like confused a bit.

The interaction things are the same, but they look different.

Then you try to work again in the portal and you're on the other side, the space.

So the singer is on the space shuttle and keeps singing.

And The funny thing is that this change is only for you.

20:05

So people go to the portal and say, oh wow, everything now is a cartoon wall because they were saying I'm in Philadelphia.

The singer said no, it's a cartoon wall.

They don't start understanding what's happening and such that the point was, was that not on purpose?

Yes.

20:22

This happens and then people start entering into the portals and they start getting crazy and then they start commenting on something but there are different parallel nurses so they don't understand each other.

And this happens also with me during the test like something was not working or saying oh this is bad, I click on this and the and The thing is not looking at me and my colleagues were like, no, to me it works.

20:46

No, it doesn't work.

And they're like oh wait, but where are you?

Oh I'm in the cartoon.

No, I'm in space And and then we had to chase each other because you see the other people, the people are the same.

That's a good thing.

It's not that you go to another place.

It's really parallel universe and the it's crazy concept that our art and it was very very cool to me to to see and to see that lots of people loved it.

21:13

I trust you in in VR is 10 times better than in the video.

So if someone can on Thursday or Friday, I can enjoy the concert.

I advise you it's quite short, so I don't lose too much time and you can try this crazy adventure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I certainly will now because now this is like crazy and I suppose it's best experience with others at this point, right?

21:35

Because this kind of dynamic, you can only have it when you are with other people.

Cool.

Yes.

Hello.

You wanted to add something?

No, no, no, I say welcome.

If you come.

I really hope that you will.

You'll like it as well.

21:51

Maybe.

Maybe you will hate it.

I don't know.

I'm just kidding.

I saw you in like, nice.

Nice.

So maybe one one question.

What is the role of the community when building something like this?

So VR chat is, of course.

Built by the community to some extent.

22:08

And in your case, how was it getting the people in?

Would you rely on your real world community to get people whether it's something that lives beyond the event?

Well, that's a good question.

I would say that every social VR platform lives only because of the community, especially if you are consumer and if you're engaged, maybe you can live with B2B and you don't need that community.

22:33

Of course you have.

But I love engaged by the way we are chatting lipsticks to the community.

It's not basically, it's their power, it's a strength really.

It's amazing because of that.

And this is what we want to build as well.

Of course we have just started in a way because we had our alpha in January, but the platform was very unhyped.

22:54

So let's say now we start to be appealing with to the community.

And it's hard of course to build the community because you it's easy to attack the people closer to you.

But even then maybe come to the concert and then what do they do?

Will they come back today after to stay in the hub and socialize or whatever?

23:14

So and who is going to build the events?

Okay, we can make a big concerts every six months like we did, but it's not enough.

Two events per year.

It's not the platform is like a very sad place I would say.

So we need the community to help us and that's why we we are trying to attract creators of the community in every possible way.

23:36

I hope someone that is listening to this podcast also will try our platform, our tools and said wherever you need to seek it for that the community is everything because they're going.

They are the ones who support that build events.

They're the ones that give you feedback about or to improve.

23:51

They're the ones that bring the people that watch the the concerts.

They're the one also cheering for us that, you know, may seem like they're not useful in a company, but we're all people, a company's middle people.

And have some friends of mine in the community say creative and I loved it, Please do others.

24:07

I I feel really wanted to come the day after to work and do something cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're pure energy.

So without community, we we are going to die.

And these are all other platforms and the community is what can make us shine.

So yeah, we really try to be close to the community.

24:26

So of course the question may be how do you attract them?

And that's the $1,000,000 questions, because sometimes it's unclear why people prefer a platform more than others, like VR chat.

Again, we love it, But why people stick with VR chat and so much?

24:41

And not to either.

I don't know how space which had its own community, but.

Everybody has.

We don't know how it started.

Then the help beside you to videos, there was some things of the community that started but was a bit of mystery.

25:00

And this is also to us, we're trying to do our best to answer to the need of the community, being honest, showing some cool content and then let's see what happens.

But yeah, we all depend on the community in general in, let's say, in our industry.

25:17

Yeah.

And so now I want to kind of like one thing I'm still struggling to understand is how do you juggle the role of the CTO with blogging and sharing your take on the XR industry.

So those feels to some extent 2 separate careers, but how have you managed to put them together on the same track?

25:41

I don't.

Both of them.

Hoverbly.

That's my secret.

No, I'm keeping.

Of course, believes me.

Now I'm keeping some Italian sarcasm.

So The thing is the, yeah, I think that there are a mix of things.

26:01

One is time management.

I try always to be efficient in my management of time.

Also often there is a way like you have some moments of ups and downs and never work and other things to do.

So maybe exploit in the moments where the CEO have fewer things to do to maybe do a bit more on the blog and instead when I have more things to do a city or do a bit less on the blog.

26:26

So these kind of things help help a lot and of course work a lot because otherwise there is not the time anyway to do both of things.

And also be realistic about expectations, because of course, since I have a daily job, I can't publish A blog article every day because it's impossible really to do that.

26:47

So when I was, when I didn't have a full time job, for instance, I was able to publish it in four articles a week.

Now I publish maybe two or something like that.

So it's a bit of finding the right compromise, finding the motivation to be always there and juggling the time, but being disciplined.

27:06

Because if you start the procrastinating, you can do both.

And at the end of the day, if you manage to do that, it's rewarding to do both.

Because on one side, on one side, the dev side, the dev work.

27:22

I love it.

It's what I studied, what is my passion since many many years.

But it's a bit like dot human.

Let's say you speak with the machine all the time.

While the blogging work is good because I can express my opinions, because my feelings, I can connect with people and so they compensate and also they help each other because what I learned while doing city can become an article and maybe some people or companies I met work as a Blogger can become partner for the company.

27:51

So if they can help each other.

Sometimes it's tricky.

And just to to tell you like the last 2-3 weeks of work on the platform was very very hard because we needed to deliver and whoever did software knows that the days before deliver.

28:08

They're always crazy.

And in that time I didn't have time to blog at all and the compromise was OK.

Now I don't write much.

When now I finish the work, like now I can start publishing some cool articles again.

So I have some nice idea, you have some new articles and this week I will start again to publish something.

28:28

Nice, nice.

Looking forward to it and getting back on that, like your own impression of the industry.

What is your, what is actually your take on mixed reality?

I mean, do you think it had an impact or it is going to have an impact?

28:46

How do you see that?

Well, one side, I'm a big fan of mixed reality.

I worked on it since a lot of years, since 2019 in a way.

But it's let's say that as much as I love it, I think that on the immediate side that don't see many positive effects in the sense I see long term big positive effects.

29:13

But in the short term, especially on the sales side of the headset, I don't see the average consumer buying the Quest 3 because it has mixed reality.

There's no idea what it means.

There's no idea why it is useful.

And so I think short term, like John Karamak also said, I mean luckily I had the idea before him, so I can't say, I can't say I didn't copy what he said.

29:42

But it's really like it's something we understand but also people not and the applications I've seen until now, some are nice, some are gimmick, they can work in VR.

So I think we need time to experiment.

29:58

So like for VR, before having the first school games, there's been lots of tests and experiments and mixed reality headset is rather new.

We still need time to make something that's compelling to buy.

So I think that short term is mostly just for us that professionals in the field and long term is instead going to be huge for everyone.

30:18

And the fact that Apple chose mixed reality with a headset which has a long term projected success, it means that they have the same idea that long term this is going to to be maybe a great technology to use.

30:36

So you mentioned when talking about mixed reality about I felt like you were referring to games and less to.

Other content like apps or productivity or entertainment, something that, for example Apple seems to be back on giving or what they have shown, right?

30:57

It seems like it's an app more to do work, talk with people, consume content.

How do you see that?

Do you think that in this case, like for VR, mixed reality will thrive on game 1st or it would?

Be now the moment where people start finding value in mixed reality as a way to be productive or connect with people other than purely entertainment.

31:23

That's a very good question in my opinion.

I really hope for the second because I love your games, but I find that the fact that the Quest is a console a bit limiting to what is the real potentialities of extended realities.

31:42

Games are amazing.

We love Alex, we all love, you know, beat, saver, etcetera.

But exactly much more.

And I think one thing that I love to faithful is that they show the the vision for as a general purpose device.

31:58

It's partial computing, all these passwords, but it's really like you can play with it, you can work with it, you can watch TV, you can do lots of stuff.

And I think that should be the vision.

Also mixed reality gaming in my opinion has its own purpose for some kind of games.

32:16

I did a mixed reality games.

Of course I can't say them all horrible, but there is for me one little difference.

So VR is the technology that makes you dream a bit and gaming is really a dream.

So for me, most of the games should be in VR, because games are form of escapism most of the time and I want to go to the cheetah I don't want to see.

32:41

So they are in my home.

That's not something that I don't find it so even a bit green to see some deals in my home.

So that's tried to shoot me especially.

So that's that's a fact.

Instead of having other kind of applications like having a big screen for my computer miserability that would be amazing or something that may help me in cooking or in working etcetera.

33:07

That would be great.

So there are actually.

There was a good point.

There was, yeah, there was a good point, because I think the one I didn't expect that actually makes a lot of sense is fitness in a way, in mixed reality, just for a practical reason.

Because when you are in a space, you're completely mixed reality.

33:25

And then you just have.

The physical boundaries and you might hit things or bump into things and you don't know when you're moving if you you're just changing your your physical location.

And I believe that's what one of the the things you were doing right with Hit Motion Reloaded, the game that you put in 2019, I think yeah that's a good story because that game is something that I've been very affectionate to.

33:52

It's it's motion is a long story.

It starts even in 2016.

But in 2019 it was a game with Kinect and VR.

It's really, there's something that I did with that emotional.

Yes.

And in 2019, there was this opportunity with my team at the new technology world concern.

34:13

There was especially me and the game designer was similar Naviani that we had this opportunity of collaborating with HTC because I managed to take the Vive Focus, the day headset, which was like the Quest that was really before the Quest, the Vive Focus.

34:31

And the difference with the Quest is that the Focus could give access to the cameras.

So there was a sample that you could get the text off the camera.

So there was no just a sample to get the text or to do whatever you wanted.

So I managed to spend some time to modify that sample to put the image from the text in front of the eyes in a way that was passed off.

34:52

That was 2019.

It was two years before the release of Mixed Reality on the Quest.

So really a lot of time I was not the only one in the world.

There are other few crazy people like me doing that either on the focus on the Daydream that was the headset of Google but the first one trying to first of all to put open source plugin to do that so all the other developers could do the same and then to create try to create a commercial game out to fit.

35:20

So we create this game called into Motion unloaded for the White Focus Plus which was the 65 headset by HTC Vive.

We got also some support from HTC China.

So thanks to everyone Grayling and his team there that helped us in doing that.

35:39

And we launched the game to create a group of four or five Italian guys in a weird of this interview and be able to launch a game in China in Shenzhen in front of people not understanding a single word that I was saying for from the annual event of HTCI mean that was amazing really.

35:59

I still have the video YouTube it's it's crazy and the game had mixed reality because so we wanted to do something that could exploit those power of the focus plus it is like the quest one just to make you understand what you're talking about.

36:19

And we wanted to jump into the fitness to make people all move all around the room.

And we noticed also that there is this problem if I punch and I move around the room it's very risky.

So put a mix of reality.

It was very safe because I always was able to see what what I was punching and I could move very safely.

36:42

I remember during the exhibition there was another one or two boxing games and it was always scary with seeing the others playing them because the space of the demo were very small.

With other our games no problem ever happened because people were able to see the surroundings even if the space was very small, they just could see what they were punching and for safety always thought that our game was amazing in the sense and in fact when we launched it then later also for the Quest two it had both modes, so it had VR and AR.

37:13

You could choose depending on what you wanted to do.

So especially if you are in a small area, if you want to immerse yourself in an environment, initially yourself you could use VR.

If you had a small space you use AR and everything was great.

So I think that AR is has this powerful fitness game which is very important.

37:35

Another thing that I just want to say I got and also the experiments on the focus that we did in the past.

One thing that I love of Pastel AR with respect to Seatel AR, so the HoloLens, the magically the good thing of having the pastel some mediation via screen is that you can modify reality.

37:54

So we had another experience made with the creator called the elephants called Virtuality and basically the idea was that you had the headset to the pastor in the live focus and there was and the headset with the microphone could listen to the audio of the surroundings.

38:12

So it could put some music and it made the the world around you flash, the edge of the world flashing, follow the rhythm of the music.

So the more the music was higher, the more you see, the more high that around objects, the more the music goes low.

38:28

You didn't see anything.

And the some funny stories, like one night we took this headset to the discotheque and make people in the discotheque dance with the VR headset on while they were seeing this flashing stuff.

And I have to say, since you want suggestion to people, drunk people in the discotheque are the most enthusiastic users of applications I've ever seen.

38:51

So if you want to feel happy, put ahead.

Feel.

The community, yes.

They were like, Oh my God, the best experience of my whole life.

I want to buy it.

So really everyone was was super happy about that experience.

39:09

So that was a good one.

Awesome, Anthony, I think we span from one thing to another.

And I just have one last question.

It's like, what is?

What is next for you, Anthony and the Scarred Ghost?

39:27

Well that's a nice thing.

So with with all we are keeping working on the platform, we have a we're working on a new project actually of a concept, but I can't speak about anything that will kill me.

But on the platform side we are implementing some features that didn't make it for the deadline, but they're almost completed.

39:51

So we are going to release them in the next weeks.

And the difficult thing for these big projects is really, you know, it's like a marathon.

It's easy to do a Sprint of four months to do a project, finish it, ship it.

But you know it because you're also part of a very cool project that keeping motivated every week for a project that can last forever, it's not easy.

40:13

And also trying to understand what to do.

So now we're trying to.

Plan for the future and development features on the other side.

On the blocking side, I will say that the plan for me is to keep being back at writing because as I said, I missed a few articles last week and I'm looking for someone cool to interview as well.

40:36

It's a lot that I don't do some very cool interviews so I'm working on it and in general.

Also I should have lost at the end of the month on your on your trip planned in Europe, but I don't know if I can talk about it, so let's say travelling again since I wasn't able to be W Europe, at least I can have my last trip of the year.

40:55

So this is short term and always happy to be surprised by what can happen.

So if if someone has proposals of crazy things, I'm always there to.

Be You Know you Know to contact now.

Yeah.

41:12

So Anthony, thank you very much.

I think that you if you were here listening I think was we had we covered a lot and remember of course to go and try Viru join the Scar Ghost blog and also try Hit Motion preload Reloaded so that you can experience how the for one of the first literally one of the first mixed reality fitness game was actually made so.